Mark Harrison: 00:00

In the first days of June, the DPP arrived in Los Angeles to host an event we could very reasonably call unique. It was unique both for the range of people it brought together and for where it took place. It was an invitation only conversation very much behind closed doors and off the record, but we're going to give you a flavor of what took place and why we feel it was such a significant event. I'm Mark Harrison, founder and chief content officer of the DPP, and this is the DPP Podcast. As we all know, the content economy is being dramatically reshaped.

Mark Harrison: 00:50

As we landed in LA, Hollywood was buzzing with the news that a film called Backrooms, a horror movie from a young YouTuber, Kane Parsons, had just made over $80,000,000 in its first weekend at The US box office. But what was even more remarkable was that this was actually the third horror movie made by a YouTuber to achieve box office success just in this year. It followed on from Iron Lung by Markiplier and Obsession directed by Curry Barker. These then are just the latest examples in the rolling news story that is the creator economy invasion of mainstream media. Whether it's vertical video upending the landscape of streaming, or it's video podcasts applying a new lens to what we think of as TV, or it's another video that should have cost millions but was made with AI for just pennies.

Mark Harrison: 01:51

And of course, when you're in a whirlwind of change such as this, it's very difficult to keep your bearings. And that's all the more the case when every time you do get a chance to peek out from the eye of the storm, you can see a whole big world of mainstream media just calmly carrying on. The airways are still full of TV and so is the Internet. In fact, there will be $255,000,000,000 of global investment in content this year. And there's the thing.

Mark Harrison: 02:26

You can find a stat to support pretty much any position on the content economy right now from total upheaval to steady state. So this is why the DPP is going to be hosting a conference called Production Now in LA in August, to get to the heart of this complexity. And it's why, ahead of that conference, we wanted to bring together executives from both the Creator Economy and established Hollywood Studios to start a joint conversation. The question we wanted to ask them was this. What does the idea of premium storytelling, of content with inherent value, mean right now?

Mark Harrison: 03:09

Are there still fundamental definitions of what good looks like, or are our ideas of quality evolving? Now I said at the start that not only was the gathering of people that we created unique, but so was the location. And that's because it took place in the living room of a very special house, the residence of the British consul general for LA, Paul Rennie. Now even though, sadly, we can't bring you the conversation itself, what we can share is the reflections of some of its participants. So in this podcast, we'll be hearing from Noel Green, EVP and head of production at North Road in Chernan Entertainment, from Michelle Huynh, EVP for studio content operations for Fox Entertainment, and Sophie Taitt, founder of Taitt Media.

Mark Harrison: 04:03

You'll also hear from two people who helped make the event happen, Chris Saito from Vubiquity and Richard Fish from Eikon. But let's start with our host himself, British consul general Paul Rennie.

Paul Rennie OBE: 04:20

So what I have found most interesting as an outsider coming into town is I ask people why do some things work and why do some things fail? And by and large, nobody really knows, which is fascinating about being in a business like But the one consistent theme that comes out is things that succeed tend to be a good story well told. And I think about tonight's conversation about the future of storytelling was the absolute essence of that, is we're all storytellers. These come out in different medium, whether that might be in books or on streaming or on theater release, whatever it might be in that house and the conversation we had. But the essence of a good story, I think, cuts through everything.

Mark Harrison: 05:00

And in some respects that makes it makes all this complexity seem quite simple, doesn't it? Because kind of what we're hearing is that it's now more possible to give an expression to more storytellers. So they've always been these great storytellers. They couldn't get access to the means to share their stories. Now they can through lots of different mechanisms and that's really what this this sense of complexity is all about, isn't it?

Paul Rennie OBE: 05:28

It is and I think that democratization of access, there's not just that you can be a storyteller, you can distribute now very quickly as well and get it out there. But I think more brands are also discovering they are storytellers. So I think about say Formula One. You know, Formula One with its drive to survive series with its now its Apple movie with putting a lot of its content on YouTube for free for people to access in eight minute chunks. It's discovered it's not just a sport.

Paul Rennie OBE: 05:53

There's also a story within the sport that people want to hear and want to see and that's contributed to a massive growth now with three races here in The United States. But that's not just being driven by great racing and great business. It's driven by great storytelling. And

Mark Harrison: 06:08

and do you feel that for a a government like the British government now that this has got real cultural value, the ability to to be a major player in the content space, a storytelling space?

Paul Rennie OBE: 06:24

Well, I think we have always been there. I mean, from Shakespeare to Slow Horses, from J. R. R. Tolkien to J.

Paul Rennie OBE: 06:31

K. Rowling. I mean, these are the kinds of storytelling geniuses that have cut through always out here in Hollywood. And I think it's also shown internationally we can cut through. I mean, something like adolescence, an incredibly great story, incredibly well told, that is not just about entertainment but has a deeper cultural message that raises questions about us.

Paul Rennie OBE: 06:52

Baby Reindeer, year before that, another incredible breakthrough from The UK. I feel for me it's not just that we're great storytellers in The UK, but we can talk about something that is within our inner soul, within our person. And these stories travel well around the world because they are something essential about who we are as people. And I think I think there's maybe a difference to to entertain and to tell a story are not necessarily the same thing, but I think great story craft is always entertaining and always leaves you with a deeper impact than just a story on the page.

Mark Harrison: 07:24

Paul, thank you very much for this evening. Really appreciate it.

Paul Rennie OBE: 07:26

Likewise and thanks for coming.

Mark Harrison: 07:35

Okay. So our events just finished and I'm joined now by three of our guests and they are Noelle Green from Chernan Entertainment in North Road.

Michelle Huynh: 07:45

Michelle Huynh from Fox Entertainment

Sophie Taitt: 07:48

and Sophie Taitt from Taitt Media.

Mark Harrison: 07:51

Okay. We've covered a lot of different topics this evening, but all around the the theme of the future of premium storytelling. I'd love to know from the three of you what you've heard that really landed with you and what you're you're taking away from tonight? Noelle, you first.

Noelle Green: 08:09

That the traditional business model and distribution model isn't working for companies anymore and a lot of companies are trying to figure it out, not understanding all of the different platforms and how they need to probably create different types of content and create a new business model to feed this new distribution world that we live in now. Short form, long form, scripted, unscripted, can be on Crunchyroll or Netflix or with Warner Brothers, but I think all companies really need to open up their creative process to service all these different mediums.

Mark Harrison: 08:48

And do you feel that will be what actually defines success or failure is going to be the agility of some of the existing players to to change and respond to new opportunities and new business models?

Noelle Green: 09:02

I think for the bigger companies that are trying to put out a lot of content, yes. But we'll still have those small company niche companies that are doing specific genres and models.

Mark Harrison: 09:15

Michelle, you're from one of those big established players and how does that feel to you when you when you hear this conversation about the diversification of of content?

Michelle Huynh: 09:26

No. I mean, it's incredible. And Mark, thank you for the invitation, obviously. I mean, what came forward for me is just the diversity of all the different platforms and content. And we said the word democratization, I lost count of it.

Michelle Huynh: 09:41

But effectively everything from technology to the various places in which creators are able to distribute their content. For me, what stood out for today is really the symbiotic ecosystem that we live in in the convergence of all of these different business models wrap into one. I don't think anybody has necessarily figured it out, but a company like Fox Entertainment that I'm with is experimenting and we're leaning boldly into what's new and what's next. Whether that's the invention of Fox Next, which is our AI studio or leaning into Creator Studio and tapping into that ecosystem and that new economy. We are experimenting very much so and so I'm very excited for where, you know, the industry is leading.

Michelle Huynh: 10:26

Just having met with some of our vertical friends in the micro drama space is also another avenue for where we are, you know, effectively entertaining the audience and where the viewership is navigating or gravitating towards next.

Mark Harrison: 10:42

Do you feel like it requires a company like yours to have a different attitude towards risk than maybe it would have had ten years ago.

Michelle Huynh: 10:52

Coming into Fox, which was born from a traditional media landscape, but we had to reinvent ourselves. Right? It's not what was I mean, Disney obviously had acquired twentieth century effects and the various content brands. And so, the opportunity for us to reinvent what the new studio looks like and leaning into these newer spaces and capitalizing upon the Fox brand, obviously, but also providing a value proposition for how we can start compelling the creators to come to Fox and start making new forms of content and navigate the future of storytelling, if you will. You know, we have incredibly ambitious, you know, individuals who are leading the charge into what is next.

Michelle Huynh: 11:44

And, the marriage between creators with traditional media, while Fox also still have a broadcast and network arm, is very enticing to and we talked about the long tail of content creators and the people who are trying to find the right home for their content. And so, you know, Fox is positioning ourselves to be the destination for that conversation to start.

Mark Harrison: 12:09

Yeah. So interesting you've actually, as a company, consciously leveraged the revenues you get from, if you like, legacy media and linear media in fact to finance your ability to go into a new content space.

Michelle Huynh: 12:26

That's right. That's right. And and I think it's a very delicate balance. And yeah. I mean, broadcast and network is still a very much a large part of our bottom line and our success within the Fox ecosystem.

Michelle Huynh: 12:41

But there's also a space that we've carved aside for a new innovation and leaning into where the audience is migrating towards. And so I think it's a very smart business model because we are doing that delicate balance, but also not negate or leave aside the consumers who have been trusting the Fox brand for years.

Mark Harrison: 13:02

And Sophie, what what for you stood out tonight?

Sophie Taitt: 13:05

Well, think it was a great conversation. A really well curated guest list, very diverse, and I think it's very representative of where the industry's at now. You know, the economies of the creator space, the theatrical space are all merging. I heard someone talking this week about how the Cannes Film Festival and Cannes Lions will potentially become if not conceptually, physically closer together, but spiritually. Because effectively, we're looking at all of these new funding models, all of these new production ecosystems, all of these co productions across the world.

Sophie Taitt: 13:38

And tonight really showed that. The world is shrinking. And we've seen that since Netflix launched globally, really put local language content on the map as a global product. And tonight was a real representation of that with very, very seasoned deep expertise from the theatrical model, from broadcast television, but also from micro dramas, the Creator Economy, and from the ecosystems that fund, find, and and find through the the agencies as well. That was a big takeaway.

Sophie Taitt: 14:06

Like, this is not a room that would typically gather at a regular conference because everyone silos and self selects. So this was a little bit different, which I think is why you had a problem kicking us out at the end.

Mark Harrison: 14:20

Yeah. Everyone has been siloed, it's almost as if because the audience has got no interest in that and the audience is now increasingly driving the definition of what we regard as being content that has value. It's almost like demanding that different parts of ecosystem work together. Do you think that's the case?

Sophie Taitt: 14:39

I think that's a 100% the case. I mean, when I worked at Netflix, we would hear from Reed Hastings that we weren't competing with Disney or with another platform. We were competing with sleep. We were competing with gaming. We were competing with the need to go to work.

Sophie Taitt: 14:53

And I think this is even clearer now that we are competing with all forms of, you know, how we spend our time. It's the attention economy for a reason. And and also, I think one of the big takeaways tonight was that Hollywood doesn't get to set the quality bar in the same way that it would like to think that it does. It did because it controlled so many more of the routes to market and the routes to the audience. That's not the case anymore.

Sophie Taitt: 15:21

And that's just starting. We're only just scratching the surface in that space, and that's why it's so confusing for legacy and linear broadcast and and media, ecology to kind of catch up with what's happening and see in real life when the creators, are able to mobilize their troops into theatrical spaces, into Walmart, into the supermarkets. They can clear the shelves. They can fill the cinemas. And that's something that is really powerful that it really does come down to, you know, the customer is always right.

Sophie Taitt: 15:57

And if the customer happens to be a YouTube viewer, a fan ultimately of a creator or an entertainer, then who are any of us in Hollywood to say, you're right, you're wrong to be paying attention to that?

Mark Harrison: 16:11

Don't you think all of you though, is it it was quite curious tonight how theatrical and the movie theater still remains this kind of barometer of of this conversation. And I know it's partly because we've had these recent examples of YouTubers having very very successful box office, you know, experiences. But it it's it's still for the industry.

Sophie Taitt: 16:35

That's why I had to make the that's why I had to make the point around it's not only money guys. Yeah. I know we're in America and I know that success here is defined in financial terms. But success can be defined by social change, by, you know, rallying the country, by rallying a community, by making people feel seen, by hearing underserved stories and diverse voices. So quality isn't all driven by quantity of eyeballs or of cash.

Sophie Taitt: 17:03

It can be around other things. And I think we touched on that a little, but you're right. The pull was very strong still. But that's also because it's changing in that space. And so, you know, you chop off the head of the snake, the body still flails.

Sophie Taitt: 17:16

I feel like we saw some flailing, and we've also see people trying to figure out, how do we stay alive? What how do we put the head back on or get comfortable flailing and then evolving?

Mark Harrison: 17:28

Noelle, that's good. Just for people who don't know North Road, you should maybe just say a few words about what you guys make because you make an incredible diversity of content, don't you? And I I'm interested to know as a company how you think about this question right now of what constitutes value and what you should be focusing on in your business.

Noelle Green: 17:50

This can't be a sound bite and I'm gonna say it anyway but we're very traditional. So we do chase the theater on the film side and we do chase streamers on the television side. We do make versatile content. On the Chernin side, they have done big budget TV shows for Apple and Netflix. Man on Fire and which is on Netflix now.

Noelle Green: 18:13

They just are wrapping up the Kennedy's which they've made for Netflix. And Age of Innocence they've made for Netflix as well. On the film side, they do big budget and lower budget. We're actually a fifty fifty producer on Backrooms, which a lot of people don't realize. But I do know our creative executives are trying to think outside the box as much as possible.

Noelle Green: 18:35

And on my way out tonight, the gentleman from YouTube told me he's meeting with the president of North Road next week. And and that's where the spirit of thinking outside the box is coming up more and more in the selling process and going back to those same traditional ways and they're not working and content is shrinking. They've talked about vertical TV. They've talked about all different formats trying to figure out how to expand our future and how to stay relevant and profitable.

Mark Harrison: 19:03

So you'd say that actually as an industry we are still in fact quite innocent in this space. We there's still an awful lot of learning to do while it's all moving so quickly.

Noelle Green: 19:15

Yes. I thought it was interesting to hear from the gentleman tonight that of all media 9,000,000,000 of the 200,000,000,000 was box office. That to me told the story right there.

Sophie Taitt: 19:26

Yeah. Yeah.

Mark Harrison: 19:27

Well, thank you to the three of you for coming. We loved having you here.

Sarah Macfarlane: 19:31

That was so lovely.

Mark Harrison: 19:32

And we're going to enjoy going on speaking to you and many others in the months ahead. Thank you.

Michelle Huynh: 19:39

Thank you, Mark.

Mark Harrison: 19:47

I'm joined now by two people from two companies that actually have made this evening possible for the DPP.

Chris Saito: 19:53

First of all, Chris Saito, Chief Commercial Officer for Vubiquity. And also,

Richard Fish: 19:59

Richard Fish, Chief Operating Officer of Eikon Group.

Mark Harrison: 20:03

First of all, you both of you for partnering with us on this evening's event. We're very grateful to you and thank you for taking part in the conversation. Just tell me though, what did you really take away from it? What really landed for you? Chris?

Chris Saito: 20:16

You know, Mark, with all due respect, this was the best town hall I've ever participated with the DPP. And and kudos to you because the subject matter was honestly recognizing that the model has changed. And what I mean by that, the the entertainment model from creating movies to distributing movies to consuming movies and and TV shows as well. And we had a very spirited conversation. We probably could have talked for about eight hours, And I thought it was beautiful.

Chris Saito: 20:46

And particularly because you gave the microphone and platform to a lot of nontraditional studio folks to talk about a different model that, quite frankly, is very successful, and we sort of are in denial of it. Or maybe I have until tonight. And so tonight, I really enjoyed hearing from so many different people. And I I think someone said it, like, they like to come these things to not necessarily talk, but to learn from other people, and and I'm definitely one of those guys for sure. To hear the data that some folks share tonight relative to how large the non theatrical business is and how small the theatrical business is really, really opened my eyes.

Mark Harrison: 21:32

Yeah. Yeah. It was pointed out that actually theatrical is about 5% now of of the economy around content. And that probably actually doesn't even really take into account the the the true value of of a lot of the kind of additional revenue that comes around things like YouTube. Richard, what for you stood out?

Richard Fish: 21:53

Yeah. I mean, I'd echo a lot of what Chris has just said and what you've just said. But I think what was fascinating, what I love is the buoyancy within the media and entertainment industry. At the end of the day, the comparisons between theatrical, home entertainment, YouTube, streaming, content creators, it's the media and entertainment industry. And I think they're not competing tensions.

Richard Fish: 22:17

They're complementary tensions is how I'd say it. And I think that, you know, the the discussion in there you know, I agree with Chris. I, you know, I always say how well these events from the DPP are curated and the substance behind them. But I think tonight, what I love spending so much time in in Los Angeles if you've you had some very, very serious people from a wide array of the industry, the wide industry. And everyone was kind of, I think, in a bit of agreement, really, that things all complement one another.

Richard Fish: 22:46

There's no denying the size of the industry, and there's no denying that theatrical is actually not very big within it, but also it's complementary to everything else that happens before it. So maybe theatrical's not leading. Maybe it's following sometimes in a fight sense that people start elsewhere rather than start within theatrical and brands grow from that. But actually, it just goes wider than that. For me, spending a lot of my time my time in London as well, you know, people forget how big and how vibrant and how buoyant the industry is.

Richard Fish: 23:15

And and I'm excited about it. You know, we're a we're a part player in it. There's two stakeholders as I said tonight, people who make, invest, and create content and people who watch it. We facilitate that transaction. That's all we do.

Richard Fish: 23:26

But the point is I look at the industry with those two stakeholders, and I think there's so much to be excited about it. I thought what I thought Sasha and Katie spoke incredibly well. I thought they

Mark Harrison: 23:35

Sasha Loy from May 24 and Katie Hinson, who was at Sphere and Marvel Studios and now has her own business.

Richard Fish: 23:42

Yeah. Yeah. And I thought how I think they what they spoke about, how they ignited the conversation. But I I just thought it was a thought it was a great conversation. I thought it covered a huge amount.

Richard Fish: 23:51

And actually, I do think, as I'm sure you're more than well aware, Mark, it's a great setup for the event in August because I do think that what happened today will resonate amongst everyone in that room, and it will drive a bigger conversation in the middle of August.

Mark Harrison: 24:06

I mean, it's great that you're both so positive about all this. But like you just said, Richard, ultimately creators and consumers want as direct a relationship with each other as possible. They don't care about anything that happens in between. You're part of what lives in between. Don't you have moments just as a business of getting a little bit frightened about where this might go in terms of what it could mean for you?

Richard Fish: 24:33

Yeah. I I don't. Not because I am an eternal optimist, although I am an eternal optimist. I'm very much glass half full. No.

Richard Fish: 24:40

Don't. Because we're we are necessary for as long as we're relevant. And with the changes in technology, whether it be automation, AI, and all those sort of words that we all know about, how we implement those in our workflow, that's what we do to facilitate that transaction. And, actually, you know, I've always had this philosophy that if we have 10 columns of revenue in our business, our objective every year should be to erase the first two columns, basically, not be protectionist about them. And people are going, well, you're mad.

Richard Fish: 25:06

You're shrinking business. No. Because you add columns of revenue on the end. Mhmm. Because if you're progressive, informative in what you do with regards to technology, embracing in technology, finding the capital invest the capital to invest in technology within your business, then you're presenting solutions to whether it be the creators, the studios, the streamers, the influencers, you're create you're presenting solutions to those guys so that they can connect with their audience because there's things that need to be done.

Richard Fish: 25:32

And that doesn't mean it doesn't change. Our industry has always changed. So for me, like I say, I look at the industry and I go, yeah, our role within it will evolve. It will change and we need to be ahead of that, not protectionist or following.

Mark Harrison: 25:46

Would you have the same view, Chris, that actually there's there's now more onus than ever on the on the vendor community to actually keep trying to move in in lockstep with all the changes happening within the content space.

Chris Saito: 26:02

Yeah. I agree. And and and for for for me, you know, specifically for v Vubiquity, it's great. It it there's just more content. We want to touch more content, and and we love our our studio partners, and they continue to thrive, and that's been fantastic.

Chris Saito: 26:17

But there's a whole new community that I was enlightened to today. You know? And and I knew what they always exist, but now I got more detail about their existence. You know? Still a little bit tougher.

Chris Saito: 26:28

You know? It's a different economic scale. You know? Obviously, they're not making, you know, big action movies and multimillion dollar budgets. But I, you know, I think one of the things that Sasha said in there is is is the optimism that's happening in the industry.

Chris Saito: 26:44

And and I and I sign up to that as well. The model's different. It's definitely changed. And I think all of us that have been long in the tooth as an industry have to adapt to change. You know?

Chris Saito: 26:56

You have to adapt or die. You know? And I think, you know, I was just again enlightened by just the opportunities that are out there that are nontraditional.

Mark Harrison: 27:08

Now the person in the DPP that made tonight's session possible was our producer, Sarah McFarlane. And now, what I want to ask you is, over the past few months, you've spent lots of time talking to all these people we had here tonight individually, but what kind of really struck you about seeing them coming together and talking to each other?

Sarah Macfarlane: 27:35

Well, you're right. It was incredible. Having spoken to all these people and had lots of chats to actually finally have them all in one room was incredible. And the one thing that really struck me was just how happy they were to all be together. They're from different sides of the industry.

Sarah Macfarlane: 27:51

I think some people knew each other, but I got the feeling that some people really hadn't come across not only each other, but people from each other's companies. It was really quite a diverse spread of people, and they just seemed so happy to be in one place and the conversation just absolutely flowed between them all, you know, we didn't get kind of mired in one part of a conversation, everyone, it sort of sort of seemed to ping back and forth naturally between the more traditional, more established companies and then they would give their points and then the newer companies, the creative economy companies would sort of push the debate further on and everyone was kind of getting their perspectives quite challenged by each other, but in a in a really good way, in a positive way and they were really happy for it.

Mark Harrison: 28:35

Now there was, I guess, a lot of talk of confusion, wasn't there? People were often saying things like, oh, I'm just not sure where this is all heading. I'm not sure how all this is gonna work out. Did you feel that as well that there was there was a certain anxiety in the room about what's going on in the content economy right now?

Sarah Macfarlane: 29:01

I felt that was expressed by a couple of people, but I also was really struck by the kind of optimism that certainly one of our speakers had. They were believing there was a new golden era of filmmaking around the corner, and the fact that creator, like creators who'd built their own kind of following on YouTube pairing with more kind of traditional production companies, that there was a sort of new potential that could be reached and so that really struck me about how optimistic some of the people in the room were as well. You know, it's not something that you hear a lot. You don't hear people talk about that necessarily a lot, and I've certainly not heard anyone suggest that we might be upon a new golden age of content creation. I think someone actually compared it to kind of like the 1920s, which is incredible really to think of because the tone in so much of the, you know, the events that I've been to, what you read, it's it's this confusion, but I really felt like that was balanced in in the room we were in with with some real optimism and seeing a potential and the fact that barriers to entry could be dropped for some people and that there were people around the country.

Sarah Macfarlane: 30:08

I think there's a real geographical kind of division as well that people were sensing that the kind of new marrying of content creators with kind of traditional industry, that they're not as geographically bound. You don't necessarily have to come from Hollywood to to make get you know, be discovered by a production company, to make to give them the resources to make a feature film when you're very young.

Mark Harrison: 30:29

Yeah. That's a great point. And and similarly, there's a bit of a sense, wasn't there, that we don't necessarily have to measure success by the same things that we used to? Just how much conversation there was still about box office. You know, even though this conversation was stimulated by the Creator Economy, that reference point of box office is still so strong, isn't it?

Sarah Macfarlane: 30:51

Well, was interesting. The first part of the conversation was about that and it did people were talking about it for quite a bit, and then all of a sudden, it felt like there was an eruption from the more content creator side of the room where quite a few people start to say, hang on a second, we don't actually care about Box Office. Box Office doesn't mean anything anything to us. That was a CEO of a a very, very well known content creator company, and and then quite a few of us chimed in behind him and I thought that was really interesting because it there was a kind of there was sort of natural checks and balances going on constantly the whole time where no one was able to stay in their own kind of siloed part of the industry in that debate and they were being sort of corrected kind of gently, and it it was really interesting, but everyone seemed to be taking on everyone's point of view, and it was coming from a really valid a valid place.

Mark Harrison: 31:41

But just finally, you know, after that conversation, if you try to nail or define what premium content is gonna mean over the next few years, do you now have a bit a better sense of what that might be?

Sarah Macfarlane: 31:57

It's interesting how it seems to be moving from the content and the sort of the quality of the content to the function that it's fulfilling for the audience and that's that and the recognition where, you know, people in the industry are just, you know, being forced to recognise that their their content fills a role and it's actually becoming increasingly important to maybe, you know, measure or look at what that role is that the content is is fulfilling, and that feels really different.

Mark Harrison: 32:34

That's a brilliant observation from Sarah to take us out on. As she says, the meaning of premium storytelling is moving from the quality of the content to the function it's fulfilling for the audience. That's worth making a note of. And if you'd like to join us at our Production Now conference in Los Angeles on August 13, then just go to our website where you'll find all the details on our events page. Meanwhile, we look forward to your company on another DPP Podcast soon.